changeyourstars8 | When did TV shows become this important?

"How dare you helpfully give me the information I need to complain about this tv show! You're going to burn in hell!"

I've heard about the show, and won't be watching it because it sounds like utter crap. It's like the creators tried to cram every possible controversial issue they could into the show.

Yeah, exactly. LOL

I honestly don't know if I'm going to end up watching it or not . . . a show has to be really, really good for me to interrupt my writing routine for it. :-)

As for cramming every possible controversial issue in-- I've seen about half of the first season of Rescue Me so far, and I'm really enjoying it. Looking at some of the issues dealt with, it seems to be a bit much for just one season of one show, but while watching it, it doesn't matter (to me, anyway. But then, I'm addicted to weird snark).

I guess it really depends on what the people involved do with it.

I don't mind the burning in hell part..but only if I get to go in a pretty handbasket.

Just sayin..

Hee. Or at least get a room overlooking the Lake of Fire. The view is everything. ;-)

Brilliant way to win a person to your side, condemning them to hell. ::rolls her eyes::

This is the exact sort of thing that bugs the crap out of me. You can't say "That show makes my faith look bad!" and in the same breath say "You are going to hell for behaving like the non-Christian that you are!" Sheesh. No one goes to hell for their behavior as opposed to heaven for their behavior (it's all about Jesus and faith in him and nothing else factors in there) and when Christians start expecting nonChristians to behave in a Christian manner, it's even worse.

That's not even taking into account the fact that this poor woman didn't say "I'm sorry, but I'm airing the show anyhow!" She said she couldn't do anything about it and attempted to help him find the right avenue to object with. Personally, I hope his voice doesn't count for much, cause HE is causing just as much trouble as a tv show.

People are so up at arms over this show, but frankly the only way I think it'll fly is if people keep pitching such a loud fit over it. It doesn't look like it's gonna be good enough to keep a viewership anyhow, except that there are a LOT of people out there that would love to watch a show JUST to piss off the loud mouth Christians.

Well, his voice (and the voices of others who emailed in complaints) apparently do count. So far as I know at this point, the station in question caved to the complainers, which is silly. I mean, maybe it will turn out to be an absolutely crud show, but people should get a chance to check it out if they want to and decide for themselves, instead of having other people go, "Oh, this might be offensive to someone. Better not air it at all."

There are plenty of shows I find offensive, but I don't make nasty calls to people who don't even control the station content-- I just don't watch the programs. How difficult is that to figure out? Oy.

I have never found a show so tasteless or offensive that I've felt the need to boycot it. I watch very little tv, so it's easier for me to just... not turn it on and wait for the bad shows to get cancelled.

But if a show is offensive, there's things you can do. One is contact the proper people at the tv station. Another is to contact the show's advertisers and threaten to boycott their products if they sponser the show. Threatening and insulting someone peripherally related to the station isn't going to get you anywhere.

And why do people who profess to follow a religion of peace and love so quickly condemn strangers to the burning wrath of hellfire?

he replied by telling her, "You're going to burn in hell, you know that?"

She needs to order some of these. I have a stack in my wallet for JUST such an ocassion:

http://www.getoutofhellfree.com/

Well...as you know, we aren't airing the show, thanks to those "I know what's best for EVERYONE!!!" people.

Thanks, jerks...I wanted to see that show. What a *great* way to make me think being a Christian is a good thing...

Just to play devil's advocate... :D

In defense of some people (not the dude that called, bleh) there are people that are looking to have the show cancelled because they feel it's intentionally trying to piss off Christians. If the show is what it seems that it's going to be, it's going to irreverent and for what seems like no better reason than to just be mean. There aren't nearly the number of people boycotting or even objecting to shows like Will and Grace. Why? Because the show doesn't try to assume itself into the world of people that don't agree with the lifestyles portrayed on the show. It's harder to step back and accept a show that tries to come from the point of view of a Christian without considering how a Christian would truly behave.

I haven't seen any of the show, and have no idea if the show will actually be this way, but that is how the show is being portrayed.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't complete idiots out there that aren't having coniptions just simply because there is going to be one tiny little thing they think is bad and don't think anyone should see. They tend to be the really loud obnoxious ones and don't usually actually represent the majority.

I myself don't care what they do. I absolutely hate hate hate those idiotic reality shows with the one woman or man and all the slobbering fools vying to be their "one true love". They offend me, because they demean what I believe true love is and ignore what marriage is supposed to be about. So I take what I believe is the most effective tact. I don't watch them. If someone asks, (and sometimes if they don't, case in point) I tell them what I think and hope maybe they'll see my point of view and do the same. If people don't watch, then the shows won't get far.

So, all that to say, please don't assume that everyone that has requested the show not be aired is a jerk. I think most of them are just doing what they believe is in the best interest of the Christian community, misguided as it might be.

First off, the show is portraying itself as a dysfunctional family, that just happens to have a preacher as the main character. Find me one family that isn't dysfunctional in some way. And yes, "Will and Grace" was boycotted when it first came out. So was Ellen's talk show.

Secondly, if they have a problem, then they can change the channel. That's what the remote is for. "Vote with the Remote."

And until they can prove otherwise...they're jerks. And I'm being nice when I'm calling them that. I've got some other choice words, but I'll keep those to myself.

Frankly, I find their Sunday morning televised services to be offensive, but I don't go complaining to the station. I CHANGE THE CHANNEL. What do they do? Whine and groan and scream. They seem to think they know what's best for the rest of society.

Wow...censorship seems like a real good thing for the world...And don't even get me started on the wars that religion has caused.

These people condemn me for my beliefs. How DARE they think they can tell me what's best for me, and how *DARE* they tell me I'm going to hell for airing the show. Every day, I look around and I see 100 reasons why not to be a Christian. I've yet to see a LOGICAL reason to convert back to it. Yes, I was raised a Christian, and then I became Agnostic. Everything I see makes me VERY grateful I did so.

You know, rather than ranting in a huge essay in Steph's journal...I'll post a link to one I wrote in mine a few days ago. One of the polite ones.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/rosevaughn/59919.html

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this matter...

Blanket stating that anyone that has objected to the show is a jerk is pretty harsh. It's just as bad as if someone blanket stated that anyone that objected to them voicing their opinions about the airing of the show was a jerk.

I totally agree with you that the proper tact to take would be to change the channel, but honestly it sounds like you agree with censorship in just a different fashion. You'd rather censor the people who object rather than the people who are creating the shows. Everyone has a right to say how they feel about a television show. And the networks care about those opinions. Mind you, it's going to be the vast majority opinion they care about, which makes perfect sense. The more people that watch, the more sponsers they get. The more sponsers the more money. It's business. It makes perfect sense.

The people who decide to make it personal, condemn people to hell (like they have that sort of power, how conceited), point fingers and talk about how awful the people who watch and/or make the shows are, those people are truly jerks. And it seems like the majority (if not all) of the people you personally have come into contact with regarding the issue are those types.

But honestly, not everyone who decides to be vocal is a jerk. They are utilizing their right in this country to stand up and be counted for what they want. I guarantee that if a show was created that acted as if treating black people as slaves in modern times was natural and okay, people would raise an ever living stink. It would be all over the news and no one would call a single black person a jerk for being upset over it. The show would probably never make it to the air and very few people would be upset over the loss because it was going to obviously be offensive to a large group of people.

The difference here is that people who handle these religious situations wrongly are the loudest and most obnoxious. Just because they are jerks doesn't make the rest of them jerks. It just means they happen to be grouped together with the wrong people.

(On a sidebar, I feel bad for you that you are most comfortable as an agnostic. I honestly can't relate, but I can't imagine, especially in this nutso world, that it's got to be easy to be unsure of something that impactful. I hope, for your sake, that you are able to find a piece of faith in something to hold on to eventually.)

I'm not calling all Christians jerks. I'm calling these Christians jerks. It's because of them that this program got censored. My parents are Christians, so is my best friend's husband. And they all kick ass. But they don't tell me what I can and cannot watch, feel, do, believe, etc.

((I feel bad for you that you are most comfortable as an agnostic. I honestly can't relate, but I can't imagine, especially in this nutso world, that it's got to be easy to be unsure of something that impactful. I hope, for your sake, that you are able to find a piece of faith in something to hold on to eventually.))

Frankly, this is exactly why I'm GLAD I'm agnostic. This nutso world is exactly why I believe the way I do. It's alot easier than you think to feel the way I do, and that's because of all the religious people tellling me how I shlould live my life...or feeling sorry for me. If there's one thing that will piss me off faster than asshole customers, it that.

I don't want your sympathy. I don't want your pity, and I sure as Darwin don't want your prayers. Just because I don't believe in your 'god' doesn't mean I don't have faith in anything.

I have faith in ME. I have faith in MY ABILITIES, and in MY drive to achieve anything I set MY mind on. I don't need some idea of a big all knowing, all seeing, all feeling man in the sky to be validated. All I have to do is LOOK IN A MIRROR for that. It's sad that you can't feel that way.

'God' isn't impactful. When there's PROOF he/she/it exists, *then* it will be impactful. My parents made the impact on my life. My friends made the impact on my life. My teachers made the impact on my life. 'God" didn't help me earn two degrees in INT, and 'god' didn't help me land my job at KSN. I did that. Me. Little old Ashley. Not 'god' not 'jesus'. Me.

'God' isn't going to solve all your problems. That is what you are for. And I'm getting to the point where I think it's cowardly for a person to fall back on the 'big guy in the sky' and say "god's going to fix everything!!!" If you have a problem, suck it up and deal with it.

And I feel sorry for you because you can't understand that.

I may have misinterpreted, but it sounded very much to me that you were calling any Christian that vocally objected to a show in an attempt to have it removed the air a jerk. That is where I disagree. Handling a situation the wrong way doesn't make a person a jerk.

On other topics, it doesn't sound to me that you are nearly so much of an agnostic as a humanist. There is a big difference from being completely unsure of what is true and unwilling to take any steps to believe one way or the other and what you seem to believe. If I understood you properly, you don't really care one way or the other if God exists, because he hasn't shown himself to be worth much. You believe people should take their own situations under control and find their own worth, yes?

I didn't mean to come across like I was sitting here pitying you, though I guess the way I put it it did. :D By feel bad for you, I just meant it in the same way that you think "Aw, poor person" when you see someone holding a road map and trying to figure out where on God's green earth they are. It was a passing, gee, poor person kind of thought. I hate to be lost and I actually love, more than anything, to find new ways to get around my town. I think the same way when it comes to God. I love discovering new avenues and things about him. So I feel bad when people have no idea what's up or what they might believe, because I think it sucks to be lost. You don't actually sound like you are in that position, though.

"'God' isn't going to solve all your problems. That is what you are for."

Alright now. ;) Now you are telling me what to believe. God doesn't fix everything, he never claims to fix everything and the people that think he does are... well they need a mindset adjustment. If you can't relate to a person having an actual relationship with God, one on one with real conversations, then you can't really understand that there comes times when everyone else can't see how things will work out, but you just know that things will be okay. I tend to think it's more cowardly to have so little faith in God (for those of us that believe in him, not a general blanket statement) that you can't trust him *to* fix things.

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't really much matter if God hasn't impacted your life personally. That doesn't mean he hasn't impacted some of the rest of us. It's not cowardice to trust in something that has been proven to be real. It only seems like cowardice to you because you haven't been witness to the proof.

Last thing, I swear...

"I don't want your sympathy. I don't want your pity, and I sure as Darwin don't want your prayers."

I don't understand that. Why not? Regardless of what I believe when it comes to God, why would you not want people to care about you? There was never a point that I told you what to believe about God, and I didn't even say that I felt bad that you don't believe in God, but that I felt bad because I thought you were lost on what you believed in general. It wasn't a superior, "Gee, she doesn't believe the right thing, how I pity her" sort of thing. It was a genuine care for someone that I've had contact with. I'm one of those mushy people that gets attached to people quickly. :D Purely because you are a friend of Steph's, that makes me concerned for you and because I've had (albeit limited) contact with you, that adds to it. You aren't a number in my list of those I must evangelize. You are a person who has crossed my path in life and I'm genuinely interested in you as a person.

((It only seems like cowardice to you because you haven't been witness to the proof.))

What proof? I've yet to see physical or scientific proof that *any* god or gods exist.

(("I don't want your sympathy. I don't want your pity, and I sure as Darwin don't want your prayers." I don't understand that. Why not?))

Pity, sympathy, and caring are very different things. For a perosn like myself, pity is degrading. Sympathy is for when mom or dad dies. Caring is someone who respects my beliefs and *doesn't* think I need pity or sympathy.

((I felt bad because I thought you were lost on what you believed in general))

I'm not lost. I thought over my decision, and there were many factors that weighed in on that. I didn't "drift" from god. I chose to be Agnostic. Just because I don't believe in one specific god doen't mean I don't have any kind of faith or beliefs in general. As I said before. I believe in myself, and I have fatih in my abilities. That's enough for me.

"What proof? I've yet to see physical or scientific proof that *any* god or gods exist."

The only proof we have that wind exists is to see its effects. Wind isn't a provable thing in and of itself. So you look at the things that are moved by it and then you can say it exists. The same goes for God. You can't see him, there is no proof beyond seeing the things affected by him. I've had my life affected by him, so I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he exists. I don't even begin to try to understand all the workings of what he does and does not choose to do. My faith kicks in with things like that. I just trust that he knows something more than me and that what he does (or doesn't do) makes sense in the grand scheme of things. I can't imagine why he doesn't just open up the sky and wave at the world and say "Howdy, here I am!". But because of what I've seen of God, I have to believe there is a solid reason for it.

Either he opts not to make himself obvious to everyone, or perhaps it's simply that not everyone is willing to see the proof, I dunno. I don't think I want to know, because either way I don't understand it. Maybe the time for you isn't yet, or maybe (though I personally don't believe it) you are right. It doesn't much matter to me in the end. He is real for me, and I put my faith completely in him. I would love to see the whole world believe in him, but I most certainly don't expect it to happen and I don't have any reason to judge anyone who doesn't believe in him.

"Caring is someone who respects my beliefs and *doesn't* think I need pity or sympathy."

Maybe it's just a matter of definitions being different between us, because I don't think that sympathy and caring are mutually exclusive. I don't disrespect your beliefs. As I said the last post, I was under the impression that you had no beliefs, that you couldn't figure out what you believed. For me that is just as bad as having lost a parent.

I don't pity you for the beliefs you have. Just because I don't relate to them and the fact that in my ideal world you would believe in God, doesn't mean I don't respect that your opinion differs from mine. Trust me, I'm not so deluded to think that my ideal world and reality would ever collide.

"As I said before. I believe in myself, and I have fatih in my abilities. That's enough for me."

Which is where my confusion came from. I didn't define Agnostic as that. As far as I knew, that would be humanism.

((Wind isn't a provable thing in and of itself.))

Actually, yes it is. Jet Streams, high and low pressure. Ask and meterologist. They'll tell you there's proof it exists.

((I didn't define Agnostic as that. As far as I knew, that would be humanism.))

Agnosticism is the belief that a god or gods may oir may not exist. But that existence or non-existence can neither be proven nor disproven.

I'm not saying there isn't a god of some kind. I just find it very hard to believe in any god until I see proof he/she/it exists. Until I see that proof, then I'm perfectly happy believing the way I do.

"Actually, yes it is. Jet Streams, high and low pressure. Ask and meterologist. They'll tell you there's proof it exists."

Actually... :D Those are all effects that prove it. You can't just look at wind and say, hey, there it is. :D

My father was diagnosed with a brain tumor a few years ago. Test results proved it was there. It wasn't something he really wanted to deal with, much less die of, so at a prayer meeting, he asked for prayer. He went back to the doctor and suddenly this brain tumor they were sure was gonna kill him was gone. That effect was a piece of proof for me.

(By the way, Steph, at any point that you are tired of us taking up space in your comments, holler!)

So, now you've got me curious. What sort of proof would you need? For me, something like that is plenty, but some people like to tell me that all that proves is that medicine is fallible and tests aren't always right. I'm gonna repost this question over in my LJ, though, so we don't have to keep replying here. :D Feel free to respond over there, cause I would love to hear your response.

Nope, I'm having fun reading. :-D I love discussions like this. And I know that I'm going to reply to your latest entry, Debi, I just need some time to get it all coherent in my head.

This is probably going to be a fairly long post, so bear with me. :-)

I myself don't care what they do. I absolutely hate hate hate those idiotic reality shows with the one woman or man and all the slobbering fools vying to be their "one true love". They offend me, because they demean what I believe true love is and ignore what marriage is supposed to be about. So I take what I believe is the most effective tact. I don't watch them.

Those are exactly the shows I'm referring to when I mention programs that offend me. Ugh. And things like "The Swan". Haaaaaate. lol

These people condemn me for my beliefs. How DARE they think they can tell me what's best for me, and how *DARE* they tell me I'm going to hell for airing the show. Every day, I look around and I see 100 reasons why not to be a Christian.

The ones who condemn you for your beliefs are pretty nasty customers-- you know I've run into several of them myself. :-) But other people find good things in the faith. There are several old quotes that apply here-- 'see what you want to see', 'take out of it what you put into it', etc. If people read the Bible and want to see examples of loving other people and doing good deeds, they'll see that. If they read it trying to find justification for being the next Fred Phelps, they'll find a way to see that too. It's not so much the faith that's the problem as the individuals.

I guarantee that if a show was created that acted as if treating black people as slaves in modern times was natural and okay, people would raise an ever living stink.

This is a good point. And I'm not much on the whole boycotting thing when performed by either side-- I'd much rather let the shows air if they can actually find financial backers, and then when/if it flops, those shows won't be funded again. I like the idea of things being judged by the audience rather than people who fund shows being intimidated by a vocal group who might not even represent the majority view of the people who'd check out the show.

'God' isn't going to solve all your problems. That is what you are for. And I'm getting to the point where I think it's cowardly for a person to fall back on the 'big guy in the sky' and say "god's going to fix everything!!!" If you have a problem, suck it up and deal with it.

I'm going to have to disagree here. It's just an opinion I take exception to; I love a lot of Heinlein's writing and in his Notebooks of Lazarus Long, along with one of my favorite quotes about religion, ("There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know, so why fret about it?"), there's a quote that reads, "History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help."

And I very much disagree with that. Because even atheists don't 'stand up to the unknown without help'. Some of them go for discovering things through science-- can't they just leave it unknown? Aren't they strong enough for that?-- or there's something else that they believe in that doesn't always have a 'rational' basis.

It's not cowardly for a person who has faith to look to God for strength during a crisis. To me, it's kindof the same thing as calling your best friend to talk things over and see what options there are. Yes, people could get through most wretched times alone. But why in the world would you even want to try?

I don't 'feel sorry' for someone who does or doesn't have faith. We all have our own paths to travel to find the best place for us, spiritually and emotionally, and for some people that means a belief in God, and for some it doesn't.

And I think that's it, for now. I'll probably think of something later when I'm in the car and can't get to the computer, knowing me. :-)

((It's not cowardly for a person who has faith to look to God for strength during a crisis.))

I guess I wasn't very clear on what I said, cause you're right. The people who I were thinking of were a *small* group I met at FHSU who, whenever something went wrong, they would sit back and do nothing whatsoever to fix it. They basically said the god would take those problems away. Well...those problems only got worse.

Most of the people that I know say that god will help them through their problems. And they, themselves, go and do what is needed to be done to fix the problem.

So, I apologize for that part of my comment.

Whoops...forgot to log in. That's me!

And on another note...KSN is ariing the Book of Daniel. Steph, I e-mailed you about it. I'll be on AIM later tonight to tell you more.

Yay! I have no idea if it's good enough to deserve a spot on the air, but now at least we'll get to check it out and see for ourselves. :-) (or at least you will-- I, being an airhead, will probably forget when it's on, which is what I usually do with TV shows)

And it's Friday, so I doubt I'll be on AIM tonight, but I will check mail off and on.

8 to 10 pm tonight on NBC. Your parents should be able to get it with the bunny ears. Mom's recording it though. I'll let you know if it's any good.

When did TV shows become this important?

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