You are arguing points that I'm not trying to make. I say "The sky is green." and you say "You are wrong, it is not red!"
Yes, one man suceeded in getting the book removed and a committee chose to put it back. *My* point is, when that one man raised an objection to the book, then every parent should have been made aware that someone took issue with the book and been given the opportunity to express their viewpoint on it.
We have the same point just from opposite sides. You don't think that one man should have the ability to have the book removed and I don't think a committee should have the ability to put it back when there are objections.
"Here's that whole not giving teens the credit they deserve. Kids are a lot mature than they're getting credit for."
A teenager only gets credit for being mature when they prove they are. Most teens prove regularly that they aren't. But regardless of whether they are or aren't, it isn't up to the school system to decide that. It is up to the parents. And until that child turns 18, they are under the responsibility of the parents. They can be more mature than the parents that are responsible for them are, but if that parent says they can't do something then they can't. Or they can attempt to be emancipated.
If your issue is that teens should be allowed to make these decisions for themselves, then your first step needs to be to lower the age at which a person becomes a legal adult. In the meantime, parents are ultimately responsible for their children and as such have every right to decide what their children are and are not ready for.
"Now, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not comparing television to books."
If I said "Well, if you think Stephanie is bad, you should see Ashley" then one assumes that they are being compared. You said "And if you think a book is bad…then you really haven’t watched television lately, have you?" That was comparing them. If you didn't mean to compare them, fine, we can have a separate discussion, but you did compare them.
"I'm saying that if the kid doesn't read it in a book, they will see it somewhere else. TV, the street...where ever. At least in class, there can be discussion about what is read. Things can be analyzed and understood."
OR, an overworked, underpaid teacher with a degree in English, not in psychology can attempt to squeeze a discussion into the limited time she has with her overcrowded class. Vague things can be touched on and no real sense of what each student needs to be handled will come to pass. Teachers aren't equipped and shouldn't be expected to handle this sort of thing.
And, to follow your train of thought... we should just go ahead and allow students to do drugs on campus. We should provide them with clean needles, because they are going to be able to get drugs somewhere else and at least if they do them at school they won't pass around diseases with dirty needles.
If the kids are being exposed to this stuff at all it is because somewhere down the line the parent made a call that allowed it. They don't restrict television shows, they don't monitor their kids' activities, whatever. Those parents are most likely not going to take issue with a book's contents. And if they do, it's most likely because they allowed the exposure so they could have the conversations.
"That's what school is for."
No, that is what parenting is for. Just because there are parents that *don't* take responsibility for their kids and have discussions and teach them how to make right choices doesn't mean that the school needs to pick up the slack, or take over the job from parents who do. It is sad that not all parents truly parent their children, but the fix to that problem is not to have a handful of people take over the job for every parent. And when we have schools taking over the parenting responsibility, then it exacerbates the problem. Then other parents say "Well, why should I talk to my kid about sex? They'll hear about it in school." And then next we'll hear "Why should I teach my kid to say Please and Thank You? That's something they'll pick up in school."
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2006-02-22 08:44 pm (UTC)Yes, one man suceeded in getting the book removed and a committee chose to put it back. *My* point is, when that one man raised an objection to the book, then every parent should have been made aware that someone took issue with the book and been given the opportunity to express their viewpoint on it.
We have the same point just from opposite sides. You don't think that one man should have the ability to have the book removed and I don't think a committee should have the ability to put it back when there are objections.
"Here's that whole not giving teens the credit they deserve. Kids are a lot mature than they're getting credit for."
A teenager only gets credit for being mature when they prove they are. Most teens prove regularly that they aren't. But regardless of whether they are or aren't, it isn't up to the school system to decide that. It is up to the parents. And until that child turns 18, they are under the responsibility of the parents. They can be more mature than the parents that are responsible for them are, but if that parent says they can't do something then they can't. Or they can attempt to be emancipated.
If your issue is that teens should be allowed to make these decisions for themselves, then your first step needs to be to lower the age at which a person becomes a legal adult. In the meantime, parents are ultimately responsible for their children and as such have every right to decide what their children are and are not ready for.
"Now, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not comparing television to books."
If I said "Well, if you think Stephanie is bad, you should see Ashley" then one assumes that they are being compared. You said "And if you think a book is bad…then you really haven’t watched television lately, have you?" That was comparing them. If you didn't mean to compare them, fine, we can have a separate discussion, but you did compare them.
"I'm saying that if the kid doesn't read it in a book, they will see it somewhere else. TV, the street...where ever. At least in class, there can be discussion about what is read. Things can be analyzed and understood."
OR, an overworked, underpaid teacher with a degree in English, not in psychology can attempt to squeeze a discussion into the limited time she has with her overcrowded class. Vague things can be touched on and no real sense of what each student needs to be handled will come to pass. Teachers aren't equipped and shouldn't be expected to handle this sort of thing.
And, to follow your train of thought... we should just go ahead and allow students to do drugs on campus. We should provide them with clean needles, because they are going to be able to get drugs somewhere else and at least if they do them at school they won't pass around diseases with dirty needles.
If the kids are being exposed to this stuff at all it is because somewhere down the line the parent made a call that allowed it. They don't restrict television shows, they don't monitor their kids' activities, whatever. Those parents are most likely not going to take issue with a book's contents. And if they do, it's most likely because they allowed the exposure so they could have the conversations.
"That's what school is for."
No, that is what parenting is for. Just because there are parents that *don't* take responsibility for their kids and have discussions and teach them how to make right choices doesn't mean that the school needs to pick up the slack, or take over the job from parents who do. It is sad that not all parents truly parent their children, but the fix to that problem is not to have a handful of people take over the job for every parent. And when we have schools taking over the parenting responsibility, then it exacerbates the problem. Then other parents say "Well, why should I talk to my kid about sex? They'll hear about it in school." And then next we'll hear "Why should I teach my kid to say Please and Thank You? That's something they'll pick up in school."